Carl Edwards must face the music for his actions, but will it be Metallica or Bobby Vinton?
by 4ever3 on Mar 8, 2010 6:39 PM EST
46 comments
ATLANTA - MARCH 07: The wrecked #12 Penske Dodge, driven by Brad Keselowski, sits in the garage after an incident on tack during the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Kobalt Tools 500 at Atlanta Motor Speedway on March 7, 2010 in Hampton, Georgia. (Photo by Geoff Burke/Getty Images for NASCAR)
There is no mistaken what Carl Edwards did today to Brad Keselowski was a big no no in the eyes of anyone watching the race including NASCAR but what kind of penalty is he going to face as a result?
Well Keselowski wants Edwards parked for at least one race, which seems possible but unlikely in my opinion.
Why? Sponsorship dollars. Think of the lost revenue by not having the Afflac, Scotts, (name of other sponsors here) car in the race. Certainly if I were a sponsor of Edwards I would not be pleased that my car was not in the race with my driver behind the wheel. Of course the 99 car would be in the race, but not with Edwards behind the wheel.
In fact I might just be so upset that I would pull all of my television advertising from the race too which would mean a loss of revenue for NASCAR and FOX.
Get the picture?
So what would you do?
Looking at Edwards' past history might help NASCAR's decision, so let's do that.
1) In 2006 Carl was wrecked on the last lap while leading at MIS in an incident caused by eventual winner Dale Jr. After getting fresh rubber Carl went back out on the track and crashed into the driver's side of the Dale Jr's car while he was on his cool down lap and while Jr had his hand out the window. He was given a fine and put on probation.
2) In 2006 Carl retaliates on Tony Stewart for a bone head move Stewart did earlier in the race and Carl spins out Tony while entering pit road for caution period pit stops while pit crew members were over the wall on pit road. I still have problems with this one even though Carl claimed that he spun Tony away from the pit crews, but Tony could have easily lost control of his car and went in a totally opposite direction.
3) Carl has an altercation in front of cameras with teammate Matt Kenseth after a race where Carl threatens physical aggression on a stunned Kenseth.
4) Carl and Kevin Harvick get into a shoving/wrestling match in the pits after practice - it is reported that punches were exchanged between the two.
These are just off the top of my head too, there might be more. I do believe that Carl and Busch got into it in Bristol one time, but I'm also sure Busch started it.
So what to do now that we've established a bit of 'history in payback' as it were?
Look at similar cases;
1) Kevin Harvick was parked for a Cup race for his actions in a Truck race at Martinsville involving the late Bobby Hamilton.
2) Ted Musgrave was parked for a race because he went back out on the track and wrecked Kelly Bires after being more than 100 laps down because of an altercation with Bires that caused him to be down that many laps.
3) Kevin Harvick and Jamie MacMurray are fined and put on probation for banging bumpers on each other.
and the list goes on.
So what now?
Well Dustin Long thinks NASCAR should just fine him a ton of points so its like he has been parked a race. Not a bad idea really.
Nail him hard so that it is like he missed a race. I'm OK with that, but I think I might just take it a bit further.
I'd nail him a minimum 200 points and park him a race too. If they can fine Carl Long 200K for a large motor in an exhibition race then they can fine Carl 250K for overly aggressive driving with the potential to injure other drivers (look at the A-piller on Keselowski's car - man he is lucky it didn't collapse any more) as well as spectators. Then I'd fine Roush/Fenway racing for not controlling their driver, make them take some ownership too. Roush would get hit with the same amount of point and dollar fines. Also, I'd make the 99 car ineligible for the next race regardless if they had a different driver in the car. They can run a different number on the car if they want, just not the 99 so they can't collect Owner Points either.
Harsh? Yes. Unfair? Maybe. Unrealistic? In the world of NASCAR yes. But if you don't make an example now then what's next? I mean the precedent of a one race suspension was set with Musgrave when, under similar circumstances he deliberately drove into Kelly Bires at Martinsville which is a short track where the speeds are about 1/2 they are at Atlanta, and Bires' truck didn't get airborne.
Some of you may think that I'm just saying this because I'm not an Edwards fan, well you have your right to say that, but based on this history and the precedents already established by NASCAR I'd be saying that about any driver out there that would be in Carl's shoes at this moment - even Dale Jr.
Now don't get me wrong I'm sure Carl had no intention for Keselowski's car to get airborne and I'm quite sure that he regrets doing what he did to Brad and if I had thought otherwise I would have said so and made the punishment even more harsh. We all do stupid things everyday, and we all must face the consequences of our actions - intended or not - and a NASCAR driver is no different in my opinion.
There's "Have at it boys" and then there's "Have havoc boys" - which is it going to be and at what cost?
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Nice article. Well written
I’m going to copy and paste here what I wrote in the raceday thread (not out of vanity… just because i posted it really late and i’m sure it won’t be read in there. plus… it still applies.):
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Between the end of last season and already in this one (specifically in the Nationwide Series), I have grown absolutely disgusted with Brad.
He has acted like a brazen, arrogant punk… both on the track and in front of the microphone. I’m glad Carl did what he did, and frankly I’m glad Brad ended up on his roof. That car was in absolutely NO danger of entering the stands.
I just hope it is over now. I think Keselowski has a lot of talent… once he grows up and stops acting like a cheap circa-2007 Kyle Busch, he will do quite well. No more retaliation. Hopefully lesson learned.
I think Carl did what 10 or 12 of the boys out there would love to do… I’d be interested to hear the radio chatter immediately after it happened.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carl certainly has some spotty history, as you noted above. However, Keselowski was starting to truly get out of control. A list of his recent (usually unprovoked) incidents would be quite lengthy already.
As scary as it was, hopefully this put him in his place and we won’t see anything like this again.
At worst, I think that both of them should be placed on probation and told ‘no more incidents’ for x-amount of races. Carl for the spin, Brad to eliminate any further retaliation… plus the summation of his past incidents.
I'm with you on this
although Brad would have to be a few fries short of a happy meal if he thinks he’s going to get retribution on Carl for this one – a smart man would walk away and leave it alone for an awful long time. I admit Brad’s swagger has gotten a little long in the tooth and what he needs is someone to take him under their wing and say listen son … like what Richard Petty did to a very young Dale Earnhardt way back when and then if that doesn’t work a good ol’ hockey fight behind the haulers should do instead of taking it out on the track. Using your car to get even is the same as a hockey player using his stick. Listen boys if you’ve got issues then drop the gloves and have at it face to face instead of nose to tail.
I know this will sound weird, but I wish NASCAR would allow fistfights where they can be seen and be less concerned with drivers’ public cussing. (I don’t think either are allowed, even with the back-to-the-future rules this year.) With these taken away, drivers really have no means to express their displeasure with each other except for with their cars. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather see a driver with a black eye than limping out of his car in a daze.
I think Edwards needs to be held responsible for the medical care needed by the 7 fans who caught bits of Keselowski’s debris, but I’m not holding my breath for that. Enough points that it hurts will probably be the best we can hope for, unfortunately.
I don’t like Edwards precisely because he’s got that history yet acts all smiley for the cameras—I think my beloved Tony Stewart got it right when he called him “Eddie Haskell”. And I don’t like Keselowski, either, because I think he’s far too reckless. But I would feel about the same way regardless of which drivers were involved. Even though I dislike Keselowski, I caught my breath—I can only imagine how his mother would have felt.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
Cocktails With the Penguins, where Pens fans toast victories and drown defeats.
I'm a little confused
If NASCAR told the drivers before the season to settle things amongst themselves, didn’t they know they were BEGGING for an incident like this to happen? You can’t say go ahead and do “this” and then punish the drivers for doing “this.”
Easy solution going forward. Rescind the “police yourselves” order first off. Plus you wreck someone, you start out the next TWO races the number of laps the wreckee missed, behind. Even just a few laps would drop a top 10 car down to the 30’s.
Go Jets
Go Devils
Interesting take on the starting behind thing
but a couple of early crashes and a few lucky dogs later and he’s back in the hunt again.
I figured someone was going to say that NASCAR brought this on themselves by saying let them police themselves but realistically you can’t ahve anarchy either. Even back in the day NASCAR would step in when they felt that the drivers were not doing a good job policing themselves just look at the Bodine, Earnhardt, Elliott stuff in the mid-80’s (you could probably through DW into that one too) NASCAR had to step in and say “settle down boys or else you won’t be racin on our tracks anymore ya hear?” You know that scene in Days of Thunder where Rowdy and Cole have a meeting with the big bosses and they show up late because of ‘car trouble’ well that whole scene is loosely based on the Earnhardt, Bodine, Elliott, and sometimes DW saga. I can’t remember specifically who it exactly was I’d have to do a little research but that is essentially what happened and when Big Bill France spoke you listened.
I was actually writing a FanPost about Edwards's past incidents when this posted so I'll just highlight my main point here
One thing that I wanted to get into was when Edwards wrecked Tony Stewart at Pocono on Pit Road in 2006. As far as I’m concerned, that offense was FAR, FAR more egregious than what he did on Sunday. If safety is the main issue here, the Pocono Pit Road payback trumps the incident in Atlanta in spades.
Since the death of Dale Earnhardt in 2001, Nascar has made immense imporvements when it comes to safety on the track. It didn’t happen overnight but after several years of R&D, there have been sweeping changes in Nascar safety highlighted by three key inventions that are now mandated at every race.
1) The HANS device
2) The COT
3) The The SAFER barriers
Since these three inventions have ALL been implemented into Nascar Sprint Cup racing, no driver has ever even suffered minor injuries from a wreck (and we have seen some nasty accidents). As crazy as this sentence is going sound, Nascar has now made these cars so safe that it’s really not that dangerous for drivers to wreck each other at 190mph. (One thing about this statement that is key. I’m separating races since the three safety advancements I mentioed above were implemented from things that happened many years ago.)
Working on Pit Road is now (not in the past) a far more dangerous occupation than driving a Sprint Cup Car. It amazes me that the only person to ever be killed on Pit Road (that I know of) was a member of Bill Elliot’s crew at Atlanta in 1990. I hate to say this but it’s really a matter of if and not when a car spins on pit road into a crew member changing right side tires. This here is why I think what Edwards did at Pocono was worse than what he did at Atlanta. I really don’t care that he spun Stewart away from the pit boxes. As we saw on Sunday, when you spin a car out anything can happen.
I’ll leave you with this thought. Would rather have been behind the wheel of Keselowski’s car when it was sent sideways on Sunday or working on pit road when Edwards spun Stewart at Pocono? I’d take Keselowski’s cockpit but I’m interested to see what others say. (This was supposed to be the poll in the Fanpost)
Bottom line: If Nascar didn’t suspend Edwards (or Kurt Bush for what he did at Dover in 2007) then I don’t think they should suspend Edwards here for what I believe is a less serious offense.
I have a feeling this is going to be very unpopular.
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." - George F. Will
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Mar 8, 2010 9:47 PM EST reply actions
As far as the spectator safety goes, this is where I have the biggest problem with Carl on Sunday but even this is not as bad as I think some people are making it out to be. In the last 25 years, only two cars that I can remember have gotten into the catch fence (both at Talladega) and both times the catch fence did its job.
1) Incident #1 was Rickey Craven in the #41 in 1996. Video
2) Incident #2 was last year at Talladega with Edwards.
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." - George F. Will
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Mar 8, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Forgot the Allison incident in 1987 I believe
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." - George F. Will
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Mar 8, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Oh man you are forgetting about
Richard Petty barrel rolling along the catch fence on the front straight away at Daytona circa 1988 and didn’t Geoff Bodine’s massive truck wreck on the front stretch at Daytona involve the catch fence too? (can’t quite remember on that one – going to try youtube and I’ll let you know).
Ah I can't beleive I forgot about these incidents
Anyway what I wanted to say was that the catch fences do their job as these incidents prove.
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." - George F. Will
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Mar 8, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Sure the catch fence stops the cars from coming into the crowd
but the debris from the cars still gets into the crowd. Hoods, tires, bits of sheetmetal, brake parts etc. fly through or over the fence. According to a comment above (greeneyedlilo) there are unconfirmed reports that spectators at Atlanta were struck by debris from the Kelelowski wreck yesterday.
Also I do believe that the Dale Earnhardt wreck in 1997(?) on the front stretch at ’Dega involved the catch fence too.
Keselowski should have thought about all of these things...
before he started wrecking people left and right and inviting retaliation upon himself.
;)
Earnhardt was involved in two huge wrecks in the 90's at Talladega
One in 96 and one in 98. Neither involved the catch fence but both involved cars getting upsidedown.
If debris is getting into the first few rows in the stands from these accidents then Nascar and the track owners needs to move the grandstands back a bit at these high speed tracks.
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." - George F. Will
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Mar 8, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
This will show if NASCAR is really all about the big names or is willing to enforce blind justice
because if a guy like Carl Long had done this as soon as the race was over he would have been keep out of at least one race and fined alot of money and docked about 200 owner/driver points
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not sure what to think
i do like edwards, but i think what happened sunday was a little bit overboard, although i do believe keselowski has a bit of too much attitude for how long hes been on the circuit, i dont think anybody wants to see him hurt too bad either. i do not honestly believe edwards thought for a second when he hit brad that his car was gonna do what it did, however it did happen…. and now the question is, what should nascar do about it. carl does have his share of “racing incidents” i will say that, but so do quite alot of other drivers who have had their share of bad luck , ( or other influence ) who have had many races in hand only to have them stripped away by the actions of others. some of that is racing ( and always will be ) and some of that is just men being men. we all want to be the best lets face it, and when you want it bad enough, sometimes we will do what we wouldnt normally do to achieve it. at the end of the day…. we are all guilty of doing things were not proud of, but should we be punished for it ? and if so, who is responsible for dishing out what we should get ? racing is just that, a competition to see who’s gonna be the best at what they do. i cant imagine having 43 other guys doing the same job ( at the same place ) wanting to be better at it then me , and willing to do whatever it took to show the boss just that. i dont think i would want to be in that environment for very long. just thoughts ……. thats all.
Well stated
There is no doubt that to get where these guys are in racing they all have had to learn to give and take (mostly take and only give if it benefits them) but at the end of the day you still must be in control of your actions and accept the reprocussions of those actions good or bad. The people who judge us are our governing bodies, bosses, peers, family, friends, (fans) and most importantly ourselves. No matter what happens and what is said and who said it, it all comes down to looking at yourself in the mirror and liking what you see without comprimise and I think Carl is looking quite hard right now and that is good because it’ll make him a better driver and person in the garage area, Brad on the other hand I’m not sure about as he still has that youthfull impetious chip on his shoulder that he has relied on to get to where he is now. Some may call it immaturity, but not me I call it not grown up yet – there is a difference, some people remain immature forever and never figure out responsibility while others grow into that maturity and I do see Brad slowly moving in that direction as have most of NASCAR’s famous impetious young drivers in the past have we as fans have to be patient and allow him to evolve into that respected race car driver we all know he can be.
Here's another interesting argument I've heard is
“Carl should only get the same penalty that Hamlin got for wrecking Keselowski in the Nationwide race last year at Homestead. He did the exact same thing that Edwards did (intentiaonally wreck Keselowski on a 1.5 mile racetrack).”
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." - George F. Will
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Mar 9, 2010 1:28 AM EST reply actions
Edwards will probably just get a 50 or 100 point fine, along with a cash fine, and go on probation. The points would hurt him as he is only 20th in points right now. If nascar had done something about Brad earlier than maybe Edwards wouldn’t need to wreck him. Last year Keso took Edwards out in a nationwide race, and Keso caused the big one last year that sent Mark Martin upsidedown and all but gave the title to Johnson. Edwards did what all of us have been hoping someone would do soon. Put Brad in his place.
no suspension, no fine, no points deduction...just probation for 3 races
by leghumpingjihadkiller on Mar 9, 2010 12:49 PM EST reply actions
NASCAR has no guts
Wrecking someone on the frontstretch of a track is dangerous and Carl could have killed someone. Carl n his interview took some resposibility when he said that he looked at it and it was not as malicious as he said and it was partly his fault. Carl is clearly a phoney and a fake we all knew Brad had something coming for never cutting anyone any breaks but to wreck someone intentionally when 156 laps down after admitting that the previous incident was partially your faut is wreckless and shame on NASCAR for not doing anything about it. Cal clearly has some serious issues I have lost a ton of respect for NASCAR clearly they don’t really care about safety and I have lost all the respect I had for Carl Edwards
Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!
I bet you're really missing Ice Dancing now that the Olympics are over...
Seems like that might be more your speed.
Please explain how “Carl could have killed someone”.
Brad got what was coming to him. Now it’s over. NASCAR made the right call here.
That was out of line I do not appreciate personal attacks
And why don’t you don’t you look at his car if you can’t understand how someone could have been killed
Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!
You driver bashed throughout your post...
And what is wrong with saying that you may prefer a perfectly accepted Olympic sport?
I did look at his car. I also watched him walk away from it without so much as a scratch.
I bashed a driver not someone for sharing and opion
perhaps you should go get some schooling to learn the difference
Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!
When did I bash you?
Try not to be so sensitive, Nancy.
It’s an internet blog about racing. Get a grip. You’ve now called Carl Edwards a phony and a fake, and called me uneducated. You are also having a hard time spelling. How ironic.
If you would like to talk education, I would be glad to compare ours. I can pretty much guarantee that I am of much higher education than you. I would be glad to send you a copy of my multiple diplomas if you so desire.
However, I would prefer to talk racing.
You never bashed me? hahaha
Now who’s the sensitive one and if you want to send me your diploams send them I still wont believe you apparently you can’t decipher simple concepts there smart guy
Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!
I'm done with this
Until you can post something without a spelling error.
I didn’t mean to start this firestorm with you, I just thought you were being a little harsh on ole Cousin Carl and wanted to rib you about it a little.
PS: I will not be sending you my “diploams”
Yeah you thought I was harsh on him so you
called me a sissy nice and that post had no spelling errors smart guy
Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!
I never called you a sissy.
I’m sure there are plenty of manly men who watch Ice Dancing.
Also, I really didn’t want to do this but yes it did:
We’ll recap like this:
What you wrote : what is correct
phoney : phony
Cal : Carl
This is so dumb. I say we stop. Deal?
Easy boys!
As far as I’m concerned this is getting a little out of hand. Questioning the actions of public figures within certain contexts is acceptable to a degree, bashing each other for sharing opinions is not.
This is now the end of it. Understand.
And if that doesn’t stop it I’m getting my Dad!!!!
I didn't realize Jeff Gluck wrote for Sbnation
I have followed him for a long time that is really cool Bob and Jeff here good stuff
Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!
I was wondering what happened
I saw 19 new comments and I was like “whoa………what did I miss?”
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." - George F. Will
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Mar 9, 2010 8:32 PM EST reply actions
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